The Discourse
A wise Sentient Being once wrote:

"To me the Holy is the Christ in us. Anything that comes from Christ is Holy.

The profane is anything that proceeds out from our carnal, natural mind. The Profane is that which does not glorify God. I believe it is that simple. When you hear someone speak or read his or her writing, if it does not glorify Christ, then to me it is profane.

The Fruit of the Spirit

Some seem to think that any act is Holy and nothing is profane. This saddens me as it distorts the image of God that we were made in the image of. Our God is Holy and Righteous. The fruit of Holiness is the fruit of the Spirit. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23 If we are living a Holy life in the image of God this is the fruit that will be produced in our lives. We then do not have to be concerned about the law because we are living above the law of sin and death.

The Works of the flesh.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21

This is so simple that even a child can understand. So when you read a post your spirit will discern flesh or spirit. If you are manifesting the works of the flesh and trying to say that is it Christ ministering through you, you just may be in some deception. Now I know that Christ can minister through you in any condition you are in. but the manifested works of the flesh are the profane and should never be masked as the works of the spirit.

I speak a lot about not judging one another but there is such a thing as righteousness judgment. How can we tell the difference? A righteousness judgment will be done in love without a condescending attitude and a spirit of condemnation. Righteous judgment means to make right that which is wrong. That is what God does. He corrects us to make right that which is wrong. We were all judged as sinners on the cross and that judgment was sufficient for all time. We are now being judged as sons and daughters by a loving Father who is not angry, but determined to make us realize that we do not benefit by going against His divine direction. Any time you manifest the works of the flesh it only proves you are still living, (at least at the moment) in a false identity of a carnal human being. You are in reality a spiritual being and when you are living from that identity you will manifest the fruit of the spirit.

I believe this is what many think they are doing when judging this forum. They have a sincere heart and love God and are doing what they think is right. We do not have a right to condemn them for doing what they think is right. I know our brother personally, we met in Seattle and I know he loves the Lord. He has a right to follow what he feels the Lord is telling him. I disagree with these judgments but nevertheless they have a right to express what they feel. I have stated repeatedly that all are free to share and even disagree on this forum. After all we must learn the value of disagreeing in love and not condemn others in the process.

I have had one of the kingdom ministers for a couple of years now traveling the country and telling people that I am new age and warning them against me. This person is a very dear friend of mine and I value their friendship but not what they are doing. My heart is pure before the Lord but I understand why this person does what they do. They believe they are defending the faith. I also once had a mindset that it was my duty to police the saints and to protect them from error.

I believe it is not as important to judge others as it is to judge ourselves. Every day of my life my goal is to manifest the love of my Father towards His creation. My heart is to continually live from my spirit and not my natural mind. If I see the works of the flesh coming forth I immediately turn my mind and focus it back on the spirit. If we would all spend as much time making sure we glorify Christ in all things we would have less time to be critical of others.

So the verses above in Galatians make it very easy to judge between the "Holy and the Profane" If it glorifies Christ it is Holy, if it speaks of the flesh and giving license to the flesh it is profane. The anointing in you will discern truth from error. Sometimes your mind will discern something profane when it is Holy but the spirit never will. For instance many say that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is profane. However if you judge it by the spirit it brings glory to Christ and goes along with the fruit of the spirit. However if someone tells you that to live a life of lust and witchcraft is holy then it does not take a lot of spiritual intelligence to know that it belongs in the works of the flesh. We do not have to condemn the person we just need to discern truth from error.

This is why I feel it is not necessary for me to continually monitor this forum. I trust the Christ in you to discern."

To which another Sentient Being responded by saying:

"Dear Brother and precious friend. I hope that I can share my heart with you about what you have shared with us. I pray that I can share what God has given in the same Love you have and know that whatever is placed in the words of my response, you will know that it is coming from one that love you dearly. I had not known the love of God until He brought you into my life and showed his unconditional love through your writings. You have been a blessing to me.

That being said, please allow me to respond to your post. I have left out those parts, I do not wish to touch upon and hope to respond in the same love you have shown.

You said: "The profane is anything that proceeds out from our carnal, natural mind. The Profane is that which does not glorify God. I believe it is that simple. When you hear someone speak or read his or her writing, if it does not glorify Christ, then to me it is profane."

There are many, in the past and perhaps even now, that would call your writings profane because they see you touching upon what has been called New Age teachings. You have been taken to task, because of this, by other ministers of the Kingdom message. Thus by your definition, your messages are profane and those that oppose you come from the position of glorifying God and you are coming from the carnal mind. Who then is right and who is wrong? Who is Holy and who is profane? You would claim that your writings are of God and thus are Holy, but those that would oppose you would say otherwise and condemn your writings and position.

You state: "Some seem to think that any act is Holy and nothing is profane. This saddens me as it distorts the image of God that we were made in the image of. Our God is Holy and Righteous. The fruit of Holiness is the fruit of the Spirit. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23 If we are living a Holy life in the image of God this is the fruit that will be produced in our lives. We then do not have to be concerned about the law because we are living above the law of sin and death."

However, those that would oppose you and your understanding would judge you as being a heretic, yet claim that they posses all the characteristics of the fruit of the spirit. They would say that they are judging you in love, are being kind towards you by showing you the errors of your way. They posses the faith needed to stand up against the wiles of the devil and the new age teachings you and others may be espousing. They look upon themselves as living the holy life you describe, yet see you as not doing so. But you see yourself as doing the same. Who is right and who is wrong. Who is living according to the fruit of the Spirit and who is not?

Now you write that: "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21"

And so the Scripture does say so.

You continue: "This is so simple that even a child can understand. So when you read a post your spirit will discern flesh or spirit. If you are manifesting the works of the flesh and trying to say that is it Christ ministering through you, you just may be in some deception. Now I know that Christ can minister through you in any condition you are in. but the manifested works of the flesh are the profane and should never be masked as the works of the spirit."

But others would say that you minister the works of the flesh by your new age teachings and thus it is really you that is in deception and must repent of your ways. I would imagine that you have received many e-mail letters saying just that. You are condemned for even allowing many so-called new age writers to even post on the board you have provided the believers to share with each other. Those that attack you and others on the board, are they ministering in Spirit or in the flesh? Some say yes, some say no. Who is right and who is wrong? Who is in the spirit and who is in the carnal mind?

You state: "I speak a lot about not judging one another but there is such a thing as righteousness judgment. How can we tell the difference? A righteousness judgment will be done in love without a condescending attitude and a spirit of condemnation. Righteous judgment means to make right that which is wrong. That is what God does. He corrects us to make right that which is wrong. We were all judged as sinners on the cross and that judgment was sufficient for all time. We are now being judged as sons and daughters by a loving Father who is not angry, but determined to make us realize that we do not benefit by going against His divine direction. Any time you manifest the works of the flesh it only proves you are still living, (at least at the moment) in a false identity of a carnal human being. You are in reality a spiritual being and when you are living from that identity you will manifest the fruit of the spirit."

When Christ brought about the understanding that ALL was completed on the Cross and that we "...were all judged as sinners...", that judgement was for ALL sin, for ALL men, for ALL time, ONCE and for ALL. That, to me, means that ALL judgement was done and we were found NOT guilty for anything, forever. God was in Christ reconciling the cosmos unto Himself, NOT imputing. Nothing was laid to our account and thus we CANNOT be judged for anything, past present of future. That also means that we are not judged as sons of God either, for that judgement was given at the Cross as well.

If "righteous judgement means to make right that which was wrong" it was done at the Cross and God does not judge anyone any more. If He is correcting us because He wants to make that which is wrong, right, He has accomplished that at the Cross. If He is doing that today, He has not left the judgement at the Cross, but continues to judge us in spite of the Cross. He has not left the missing of the mark at the Cross, but continues to hold it against us. We must then use performance based Christianity and performance based walk as our guide. God that sees us by our performance and not through the blood of the Lamb. You have always been against a performance based walk, yet here you hold it as the mark we must follow or God will judge us and correct us based on what we do and how we act.

My good friend, you cannot have it both ways. Either we have been forgiven and ALL sin (missing of all marks) was taken away, forgotten as far as the east is from the west, or God and the blood are of no effect. If sin and the punishment for sin was taken away, there is therefore no condemnation to those that are in Christ. If there is no condemnation, there is no guilt, and thus no need for any correction by any, including God. If we look to the natural, we will always see the need to correct someone, but we are commanded to look at NO man after the flesh. That being so, how then can we say that God must correct the believer, when that person is in Christ and we see no flesh. If God commands us to look at no man thusly, why does God need to?

You say: "I believe this is what many think they are doing when judging this forum. They have a sincere heart and love God and are doing what they think is right. We do not have a right to condemn them for doing what they think is right."

Why do we not have the right to do that which they are doing? Is it because we must life by a holy and righteous state while they are allowed not to? And do they not look upon what they are doing as being Holy and the others that post as profane. What about the so-called golden Rule of the believer. Who is right in their responses and who is wrong? Who is holy and who is profane?

You continue by saying: "... I know our brother personally, we met in Seattle and I know he loves the Lord. He has a right to follow what he feels the Lord is telling him. I disagree with these judgments but nevertheless they have a right to express what they feel. I have stated repeatedly that all are free to share and even disagree on this forum. After all we must learn the value of disagreeing in love and not condemn others in the process."

I agree with your statement that our brother must be free to share what the Lord has given him and that he surely loves the Lord, but then so do all others who have posted on the board. They also believe they are following the Lord and are sharing what has been given to them. To all who post, all believe they are speaking truth, and sharing what God has given. All believe they are sharing from a Holy God and that which they speak is Holy and not profane. Who is right and who is wrong? Who dwells in righteousness and who in heresy?

You say: "I have had one of the kingdom ministers for a couple of years now traveling the country and telling people that I am new age and warning them against me. This person is a very dear friend of mine and I value their friendship but not what they are doing. My heart is pure before the Lord but I understand why this person does what they do. They believe they are defending the faith. I also once had a mindset that it was my duty to police the saints and to protect them from error."

Are you right and holy and this friend who attacks you, wrong and profane, or is the reverse correct? You claim your heart is pure before the Lord. Obviously your friend does not agree with you, or they would not be attacking you thusly. Who is pure and who is profane? They or you?

You say: "I believe it is not as important to judge others as it is to judge ourselves. Every day of my life my goal is to manifest the love of my Father towards His creation. My heart is to continually live from my spirit and not my natural mind. If I see the works of the flesh coming forth I immediately turn my mind and focus it back on the spirit. If we would all spend as much time making sure we glorify Christ in all things we would have less time to be critical of others."

And I understand where you are coming from, but if you are in Christ, there is no carnal mind, for a carnal mind cannot dwell in Christ. You are either in or out. There is no in between. Carnality does not dwell in the body of Christ, for to have carnality in the body, would mean that there is a missing of the mark in the body of Christ. If so, then there is sin in Christ. Christ does not miss any mark, does not have any sin in His body and thus has no judgement within either.

You once spoke of the training of the mind that one could believe that one could be a believer and drink beer in one part of the world, yet it would be considered a sin if he were to do so in another part, or something similar to that. You have been trained to believe that carnality exists in the body of Christ. You believe that this needs correction because you have not fully seen that ALL was corrected at the Cross. If one sees that the body of Christ has carnality in it, one is seeing a sinful Christ. A Christ that is missing the mark He has set for Himself and He is missing His own mark. Who then will save us? Who then, in the body can be right and who is wrong? Or is everyone right and everyone wrong?

You say: "So the verses above in Galatians make it very easy to judge between the "Holy and the Profane" If it glorifies Christ it is Holy, if it speaks of the flesh and giving license to the flesh it is profane. The anointing in you will discern truth from error. Sometimes your mind will discern something profane when it is Holy but the spirit never will. For instance many say that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is profane. However if you judge it by the spirit it brings glory to Christ and goes along with the fruit of the spirit. However if someone tells you that to live a life of lust and witchcraft is holy then it does not take a lot of spiritual intelligence to know that it belongs in the works of the flesh. We do not have to condemn the person we just need to discern truth from error."

Those that attack you and others, or those that attack the others, believe they are discerning truth from error. They all claim to be holy in their doings. After all, who would admit that what they are doing is profane. By the Spirit, I once thought and judged that speaking in tongues was profane, until I spoke in tongues. By the Spirit, some say you preach new age doctrine, but you claim you are Holy before the Lord. Who has the truth and who is in error? Who is Holy and who is profane?

Well my friend, I have answered your post by what has been given to me. But some may say that I am profane by my teachings and some would say that what I teach is Holy. Some may look upon this response as an attack upon you while others may not. Who is right and who is wrong? Who is Holy and who is profane.

Now here is the glitch. If any of us look upon any other through the eyes of right or wrong, Holy or Profane, then we are ALL seeing through the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We are ALL being fed from the same tree and none of us are living from the Tree of Life. It is in this Tree that we must ALL live in, by and through. When we live here, we see no sin, no missing of any mark, no condemnation, no guilt, no correction, no right or wrong. We do not have to judge another. We do not have to correct another. We only have to Live by the Tree of Life and it is Life and LIFE more abundantly that comes from us. No correction, no condemnation, no flesh, no carnal mind, nothing...no-thing...but Life. To correct, to judge, to etc. is from the other Tree. To live in the Tree of Life, bring Life to All others about you.

When we can come to the full understanding and realization that it is from the Tree of Life that we are from, one will not see the other Tree. It becomes an Illusion not to be grasped at, not thought about, nor given any credence to.

Jesus said that He came to give us Life and Life more abundantly. One cannot BE in Life if one is living by the Tree of Good and Evil. Choose you this day, whom you will serve...Life or Good and Evil.

The Tree you live in...is the Tree you give others.

Namaste my friend"


Why is this discourse important to place online? Because the Son's of God must come out of the sin consciousness they are in and see only the Spirit in men. They must see only Life in ALL, for to see good and evil in any, means that one is still being fed from the same tree he sees others in. If one is in that tree is he not a double minded man and is not a double minded man unstable in all his ways? The Son's of God are Not unstable, they are not in sin, they have no carnality and have nothing to be held accountable for. For they are the Holy Body of Christ and nothing...no-thing can defile the Body of Christ. If one sees anything but a complete, perfected Body, one sees an Illusion of unreality. Illusions are not real and neither is a ChristBody that misses any mark.

Stop looking to the Illusion that has been pressed upon your mind and put on the mind of Christ. In that realm, there is nothing that can defile you. Let the Illusion go, renew your mind and allow the Spirit of the living God to fully come out from you so as to touch ALL around you. Stop looking at others and yourself through the natural eyes and look at ALL in Spirit. Your natural eyes sees' only the Illusion of what it calls sin, etc. Your Spiritual eye sees only the heavenly realm of God in ALL its glory and majesty.

You have been trained to believe what you believe. It is time to come out of your paradigm of limited understanding and shift into a different paradigm. One that truly understands that you are a Son of God, without spot or wrinkle, clothed in white garment and sitting in high places in Christ. Change your paradigm and you will remove your Illusion that sin still exists in your life and in the lives of those you are trying to reconcile to God. For you will see them as already Being reconciled and your ministry of reconciliation will be a greater one than that which is present.

The ministry of reconciliation that God has given to the Sons is not to try to reconcile others back to God, but to share with them the understanding that they have already been reconciled. And if you see your neighbour as someone who has already been reconciled, then you see your neighbour as one like unto you, for that is the realm you are NOW in. You see Christ in everyone and then cannot see any man after the flesh, though you once new Jesus after the flesh, NOW you see Him and ALL no more thusly. Truly you will then BE a Saviour out of Zion.

Namaste

Sirius8

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